BECK FLIPS POSITION ON MARRIAGE EQUALITY DUE TO POLITICS
The ultimate hypocrisy – voters in the 11th District are tired of professional politicians who play the public
The following is a statement issued by 11th District Democratic Senate Candidate Ray Santiago in response to a July 3rd Courier Post news report that incumbent Senator Jennifer Beck will flip her position on marriage equality:
“News this weekend that Senator Beck will now support marriage equality after voting against it when all of New Jersey was watching is not shocking to anyone who has followed Beck’s career as a professional politician. She now faces a district which includes Asbury Park, Ocean Grove & other LGBT friendly areas – a new district which has 10,000 more registered Democrats than Republicans – therefore, it should come as no surprise that Senator Beck is flipping her position only due to politics.
The reality is that New Jersey taxpayers are tired of hypocritical, professional politicians who change their positions based on the political climate. Republicans, Democrats and all New Jerseyians should be tired of politicians who play the public. It is not like the Senator opposed marriage equality because it is in her belief system, it was simply due to the politics of a new district.This is an issue of human rights and Senator Beck plays politics – She voted against marriage equality not once, but twice – once in the judiciary committee and a second time on the floor of the senate and now because of a new district, she claims she supports it.
When it mattered most and the world was watching, Senator Beck decided to appease Chris Christie and her Tea Party base. All New Jerseyians who support human rights and full marriage equality for all of our brothers and sisters in the LGBT community will see through Beck’s incredible hypocrisy.
I have and always will support full marriage equality for all New Jerseyians and 11th district residents can be assured that I will not change my position based on politics. Marriage equality is a human rights issue which I will fight day and night for until it becomes law. It is a sad day to see a New Jersey state senator play politics on an issue of human rights.”
Countdown until Jim Sage makes a rambling posts about how Jennifer Beck turned him down for a date starts….now
I wish just one of these clowns would talk about even one real issue, that more than 6 people care about, that will result in me paying less property taxes and being slightly more free from the nanny/police state non-sense that I’m forced to tolerate for purchasing private property, or rather inhabiting NJ government land.
Or, again, we can read the rants of a double-dipping retired, but working, public union, police employee… which is only slightly better than those “Republican” NJT public union workers.
What garbage.
It actually wasn’t a bad press release until he included the Tea Party.
He really went off the rails there.
As for Jen Beck, note that nothing changed between her last vote on gay marriage and today, except her district.
She appears terribly opportunistic here, one could even argue – phony.
Ok..here it is “Where is.” Only posted about 4 hours after you, lol. James, it’s your good old “double-dippin” friend, Jim Sage–(at least I didn’t use fraud to get my job. My prior experience and education is what it did it).
I don’t think I need to say anything more on this subject. She is a liar, a hypocrite, and an opportunistic parasite.
She is against the civil rights of human beings (equality in marriage and that of the unborn). Mr. Hogan, weren’t you annoyed at her because she was against equality in marriage??? I thought I read that somewhere on your blog (yes, I do read it).
She made false allegations against me; sent the state police to my house to intimidate me to stop criticizing her–I guess it didn’t work Jenny did it? Violating the first amendment is not good.
Keep your eyes open my friends. Can’t wait to see the large ads in the Asbury Park Press regarding these issues and more.
As a Republican, I think this is a joke. This is such a political move, a very transparent, “change of heart” Beck is selling out to get votes. A professional politician ? yes indeed ! Selfish and weak move to get the gay votes in Asbury and Ocean Grove since the district changed. Anyone wonder why politicians in NJ have such a horrible reputation ? This is it.
After we all get on the same page on gay marriage, what state is going to take the lead on allowing multiple marriages? I mean, once we establish that you can’t stop love, isn’t it unfair to ration love?
Jim Sage, thanks for reading. I wish I had more time to write…. but I doubt you read anything about marriage or marriage equality on my blog, I try to stick to important issues, like the skunks in my yard. BUT, if I have time one day I’ll share my $0.02, as if my opinion matters, on the non-issue of state sponsored marriage, and yes Dan Jacobson and Ray Santiago, I hope me calling it a non-issue angers you and the 5 other people who care because it angers me and far more than 5 other people that gay marriage is even a topic of discussion with all of the other problems facing the people of our state.
So how about instead of preaching about a non-issue that 5 people care about, how about Ray Santiago tells me which programs, departments, grants and funds he’s going to work with the Gov to eliminate from the next budget, or immediately.
Then Ray Santiago can tell me what day we’re going to finally end UEZ discrimination where certain, minority dense towns, get to charge 3.5% sales tax while the rest of the state pays 7% sales tax, because clearly 3.5% sales tax is better, but why is it only better for some people, Ray? Sales tax at 7% was temporary, no? JB has a bill to lower sales tax back to 6%, what do you say to lower sales taxes?
Then Ray Santiago can tell me which toll booths on roads I’ve already been charged for are coming down. Or maybe which NJT union workers are going to have their pay and benefits adjusted to realistic levels so that NJT services are affordable? And while he’s at it, if he can get those NJ Coast Line trains to run on time for a change, that’d be helpful too.
Then Ray can tell me which beaches that I’ve already paid for, and received federal funds for, I’ll be able to walk onto for free. And if he would be kind enough to list those private property invasive zoning laws, that beach front property would be worth a good value and my town could collect those high property taxes, and I wouldn’t get harassed about a permit to build a deck on my private property overlooking the polluted river that the state, through NJSEA, has polluted at Monmouth Park.
Then Ray can talk about which parks will have open space I’ll be able to go enjoy, without getting harassed by some overpaid park ranger, since I’ve already paid for those too. How is it that I buy open space, but there are no-trespassing signs? Come to think of it, I paid for some school fields that have no-trespassing signs too, what about it Ray, are they public fields or private fields?
And then Ray Santiago can tell me which of the non-sense, court approved, school funding formulas are going to be legislated away so that our schools are affordable and the school students actually get a decent education. How can it cost $24K/yr to provide a terrible education in Asbury if it costs me $13K to provide a great education up the street? Tommy D can help you resolve this if you need help, Ray, of course, you’d have to care about or think about a real issue in Asbury Park, not just an issue 5 other people care about.
Or, of course, just continue focus on this one non-issue of gay marriage that 6 people care about and ignore the 9+% unemployment number, the debt we face, the lack of quality education, the frustration and anger of the public at the cost and quality of public services.
And again Jim Sage, I give you crap about the DD issue, and I really don’t know what more JB could/should have done on a local board of ed issue that was resolved anyhow… but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I just wish you’d retire already so one more unemployed college kid could go get a job and I wasn’t giving you two paychecks. 🙂
There goes a GOP seat … marriage has always been between a man and a woman (Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve).
Why would any homosexual even vote for her, given her prior voting record. I don’t think they could (or should) trust her.
Once her “new” view is made known, many GOP voters may just forget to pull the lever for her.
Incredible – what a hypocrite. She had my vote until she switched. Tommy DeSeno says it right – nothing has changed except her district.
Even Sean Kean hasn’t flipped his position despite all the heat he got.
Jen Beck won’t have my vote on election day. Yes she did appease her Tea Party base, people like me because she voted the right way. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
This is a disgusting political play.
Beck is ALSO Pro-Choice her opponent Santiago is Pro-Life.
I will NOT vote for a pro-choice pro gay marriage senator. She does not stand with Republicans and we need to cleanse the party of people like her.
Agree 8:56pm.
I believe Angelini & Beck are both on their second marriage. Something to be said about that….for better or worst,in sickness and in health (unless it’s an inconvenience to us.) Their words are bogus. Their dedication is self serving.We have to find better people.
I will only say this…..Tea Party Base? Really? No. There was no Tea Party base.
Heard from a friend who attended the Gooch party during the 4th of July that several municipal chairs were talking about the Beck “problem.”
Her new district will undoubtedly hand her a loss. Mostly Dems and the Repubs are disgusted with her new found “ideology” about marriage equality.
The public feud with Sage and Beck going to the newspapers not helping the situation. I was at the Manalapan Library that day when Sage wanted her to answer questions that she ignored. Many people including myself wanted to know what she was afraid of. Sage held a conference in the back of the room with all of Beck’s listeners and they were informed of issues that they were never aware of. I distintcly remember Sage glaring at Manalapan chair Mcenery and in a mean tone asking him if Beck was the person he was supporting ,and mac looked down to the ground like a scolded child. Like they say if looks could kill–Sage had that look. But he was angry and rightfully so. To this day I don’t know why Mac was singled out.
Beck will try to get support from the TP people…personally from posts here she burnt her bridges with those people also.
So lets here from TP people. What are your plans now? Could you support Santiago??
Let me get this straight. In the 11th district we now apparently have two candidates, one Republican and one Democrat, who support gay marriage.
The Democrat is critical of the Republican for switching her position to agree with his. She says her previous votes represented the will of her district.
It seems to me that those who now want to withhold their support of Beck should be asking themselves, “Has she been better than Ellen Karcher?” and “Will she be better than Ray Santiago?”
There are plenty of reasons for social conservatives not to like Jennifer Beck. However, the choice is not between Jennifer Beck and an ideal conservative candidate. The choice is between Jennifer Beck and Ray Santiago.
Art, you’re asking these people to consider real issues instead of the one issue Dan Jacobson, and only Dan Jacobson, cares about and wants them to focus on. Clearly, many here would rather support the big government, implement that millionaires tax, spend even more money in failing school districts, and advance that “progressive” thinking. Hell, they are basically saying they support gay marriage themselves since they seem to want to vote for the guy making it issue #1. I have my 2A issues with Beck and Mary Pat, think Ray Santiago would even give me the time of day on 2A issues, or oppose more taxes? No way.
And the muni chairs “heard talking” is nonsense. Name a Name, or town if you’re like me and don’t think your chair deserves a name drop, or go screw. I, James P Hogan of Long Branch, member of county committee and President of the Long Branch Republican Club, pointed out several issues I had with Mary Pat to Long Branch, Neptune, and Ocean Twsp Republican committee and club members, and a few out of district friends from Middletown, Marlboro, Old Bridge, Woodbridge, Howell. My “friends” including MP herself may have been/be mad at me for talking about real issuses, not gay marriage, but none are or were willing to support any primary challange to her, and Mary Pat gets it right 80% of the time which is more than Dan Jacobson is going to do for me. So again, name that brave chair, or chairs, I’ll bet they are voting for Beck and, like me, will support her over any progressive Democrat.
But yeah, go support Ray Santiago my fellow “republicans”, consider it the same as Beck voting with Sweeney on the budget, all the same. You’d blast her for voting with the other side, and i’d blast you personally for the same.
Bunch of one issue do nothing clows letting Dan Jacobson push bs issues down your throat, embarrassing. There are real issues to be addressed, real issues where Republicans, even Beck and MPA, are on our side, but you’re worried about Dan Jacobson’s crap?
Again, what garbage.
I’m not sure about that James. The “marriage equality” issue is a “real” issue for many on both sides.
It is an emotional that defies rational thought or debate for many.
The political problem for ideogues is that they behave self destructively towards “one of their own” being on the “wrong” side of a “core” issue. This is true of both conservatives and liberals. Take a look at the beating Steve Sweeney is taking over at BlueJersey.
Art it has less to do with her position on gay marriage and more to do with her character. Unlike those of us in the tea party, she has no backbone. She stands for nothing. The only reason she supports gay marriage now is because of the district not because of conviction. She doesent believe in anything except being a politician. Its the epitome of being a politician. She is also pro choice and supported public funding of abortions by supporting the democrats womens healthcare bill. She has not supported fiscal responsibility ever.
Ill vote for jen but my efforts and monies will go towards reelecting lillian, rosemarie, electing gary rich.
Who in the world is Ray Santiago?
Seriously? Yawn.
Who in the world is Ray Santiago?
Seriously? Yawn.
Exactly. The district 11 Senate race is Jennifer Beck’s to win or lose.
If the Democrats thought they had a real chance of picking off the seat they would have nominated a better known candidate with money or a proven ability to raise money against Beck who has proven she can win when being seriously outspent.
This what Beck said to Jane Roh at The Courier Post:
“I don’t know if I was ever considered a yes,” Beck said, disputing assertions she switched her vote. The moderate Monmouth County Republican — considered a rising star in the party — represents a robust gay population in the 12th District.
“There are lots of reasons why I ultimately voted no. My position has evolved. I spent a lot of time on this issue, and at the end of the day, I would support it if it came before me.”
Why Beck even gave a quote to Roh is puzzling. The issue is not likely to come before her while Christie is Governor. Marriage equality will only be an issue in her Senate race this year to the extent she talks about it.
Beck didn’t help herself politically by talking about the issue. She didn’t seriously hurt herself either.
Santiago is demogoguing when he says marriage equality is a “human rights” issue and shouldn’t be political.
He said in this press release: I have and always will support full marriage equality for all New Jerseyians and 11th district residents can be assured that I will not change my position based on politics. Marriage equality is a human rights issue which I will fight day and night for until it becomes law. It is a sad day to see a New Jersey state senator play politics on an issue of human rights.”
Really? Well where are his earlier press releases fighting for gay marriage? Why is he fighting only now that Beck has publically changed her position? He’s playing politics, just as the majority of Democrats have been playing politics with the issue for years.
Read the Courier Post article: http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20110705/NEWS01/307060027/How-N-J-fumbled-gay-marriage
The issue has been handled as a polictical football, or hot potato, even by Garden State Equality. GSE went along with Corzine and the Democrats cynical strategy not to raise the issue until after the 2009 election, because they knew it would hurt Corzine in the election.
GSE is now planning a judicial remedy rather than a legislative remedy because they know there is not a political will in NJ for gay marriage.
I would not vote for Beck. I would have last week. She is changing her stance on gay marriage just to fit in with her new district which includes Asbury Park and Ocean Grove. This is pathetic. Very shady move !Jen “the flipper” Beck.
She should be ashamed of changing her stance to get votes.
If you don’t like gay marriage, blame straight people. They’re the ones who keep having gay babies. Besides, it won’t matter who marries whom in New Jersey when we’re all taxed out of here.
Paul: “Lillian” who ? Burry ? You’ve got to be kidding !
Wait a sec. The same TP people that want those from opposing political ideologies to change their position to TP views, have a problem with Jen Beck for changing her view to mirror that of her new district. Listen, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but I also believe that my elected officials job is to represent my interests. If her new district is solidly behind “marriage equality” then why do we have a problem with her decision to represent what the people want. I only wish Obama would do the same.
It’s a dicey situation to insist that elected officials stick by their beliefs despite what their constituents want.
Gee, remember when Frank Pallone stuck to his beliefs, and all his constituents who disagreed blasted him? What’s a politician to do?
When Pallone sticks to his beliefs, instead of representing his constituents, he’s an enemy of the state. When Beck represents her constituents, instead of her beliefs (maybe) she is also lambasted.
Give me a break. Support Beck. The alternative Carmen Sandiego. Oops, Raymond Santiago. Whatever.
http://www.stopgovernmentwastenj.com/
Click on the above site. It’s called report waste, fraud and abuse to O’Scanlon, Cassagrande and Beck. I reported fraud to Beck and she never got back to me. I repeatedly called –no response on her part to return my phone calls. I wrote e-mails, I even posted on her Facebook site. So what happens?? I get the state police to my house to mute my criticizims of Beck.
Support Beck you say?? Yeah right, just like she supported me. When she first ran for assembly in 2005, she came to Marlboro with her “hat in her hand.” She knew if she wanted to win the 12th LD, she had to win Marlboro. She attended numerous Kiwanis meetings that I chaired, and attended numerous Marlboro Republican Club meetings. We did what we could to get her elected; we succeeded in getting Marlboro to elect her.
When the largest case of academic fraud was uncovered in her district, numerous residents requested she attend one school board meeting. Perhaps not to speak–although that would have been preferred–but at least to be on a “fact-finding” mission.
She never attended. Mary Pat Angelini was the first to sponsor legislation outlawing such practices that occured at the Freehold Regional HS District. This was later followed by Codey. Beck later jumped on the bandwagon because it was in her district.
And you want people to support her?? Sorry no way!!
Jennifer Beck reads this blog. Why doesn’t she respond?
You don’t abuse your constituents (especially after you assist them with their campaign) and then expect their support. She has betrayed her constituents.
To James Hogan: James, you asked me what she (Beck) should have done with the DD issue. Well, first of all, she should have heeded her constituents pleas and attend just ONE meeting. I don’t think that would have been an unreasonable request.
Jenn Beck Divorces Her Commitment Against Marriage Equality
posted by Ed Zipprich, Red Bank Borough Councilman & Executive Vice President, NJ Stonewall Democrats
Jennifer Beck voted against gay marriage in 2009 claiming that’s what her constituents wanted. She swore she’d stand firm on this issue. She claimed she’d never back down.
But that was before Red Bank, Ocean Grove, Asbury Park and other GLBT friendly towns became part of her district.
Now all of sudden Senator Beck is ready to support the very legislation she opposed — hoping this will help her with the enraged GLBT community
she threw under the bus when she thought that would advance her political ambitions to do so.
This blatant hypocrisy crystalizes political cynicism at its worst.
I urge all voters in the 11th District of Monmouth County to remember that, in the words of Beck’s Democratic Opponent, Ray Santiago, “When it mattered most and the world was watching, Senator Beck decided to appease Chris Christie and her Tea Party base. All residents who support human rights and full marriage equality for all of our brothers and sisters in the LGBT community will no doubt see through Beck’s hypocrisy.”
It’s time for the 11th District of NJ to have an honest, forthright and dedicated representative in Trenton who will make decisions for the good of his district and not personal gain.
Ms. Beck — who is engaged to be married a second time — may have finally seen the light on marriage equality, but it’s the dim light of opportunism that is her beacon.
It’s time to put a spotlight on her self-centered actions and make a change for honesty and integrity in NJ State Senate.
Ray Santiago for Senate.
Ed, Well written! She speaks out of both ends of her mouth to get votes. This Tea Party member will back out of his support for her.
She has eroded and lost the trust and confidence of her core constituency. She is now trying to build herself a new reputation among a different core constituency–Sorry Beck, people see through this and YOU.
Get the Beck out of here.
Wishful thinking on Beck’s part. Watch this propaganda video I found on the internet.–Again, hypocrisy and self-grandizment.
http://videos.nj.com/2008/12/draft_jennifer_beck_for_lieute.html
Actually James, civil unions and gay marriage do increase your taxes and the cost of goods you buy because now you subsidize the benefits of even more people then the ones you subsidize now.
I’m just saying
Apparently, New Jersey’s economic loss would be New York’s gain.
Studies have shown that the influx of gay and lesbian communities has shown economic growth, and general gentrification of depressed neighborhoods. Members of the gay and lesbian community are community assets with higher than average income and education.
http://www.huntingtonbuzz.tv/view_article.php?article_id=116
Jennifer Beck is, or should I now say was, against the awarding of civil rights to the gay and lesbian community. Of course with her district being reconfigured—the opportunistic flip flopper has changed her tune to become more electable.
She is a wolf in sheeps clothing–a fraud!
What about the increased healthcare costs that Gays have. Drastically lower life expectancy, more STD’s, more depresion, more mental illness, more addictions, more domestic violence.
If you are going to make it an economic issue you have to explore both sides of the ledger sheet.
one other point this statement “Members of the gay and lesbian community are community assets with higher than average income and education.” pretty much blows away the oppressed minority argument.”
TR – citations needed.
TR, you should note that I’m not married according to the Great State of NJ or any religious or non-religious institutions; nor am I thrilled with subsidizing benefits for any other man and his wife either. 🙂
For the record, in case anyone cares or wants to think about/know my opinion: I’m that [rare] creature who thinks that the government is wrong to be in the marriage business, gay or straight, at all.
Worse yet, I find it absolutely hypocritical, like JimSage bitching about DoubleDipping while being a double dipper himself, that there are many, many folks who will complain right here on MMM that our government is full of frauds who are corrupt, incompetent and overbearing while then practically begging for those same corrupt frauds to put a blessing and stamp of approval on people’s personal relationships.
It’s mind-boggling to me, I just don’t get how gays, or straights, can put that power in the hands of the people that they claim to despise and think so little of. And further, personally, I couldn’t care any less what the government, or anyone else, thinks about my relationship with my girlfriend. No offense to Jen Beck, but I especially have never thought to myself “Gee, I wonder if Jen Beck approves of my girlfriend and I”.
I can tell you this, overall, I like Jen Beck as a State Senator and think that, in general, she does a reasonable job as a State Senator, but I don’t know her boyfriend, or girlfriend, and it’s really not my business to get to know him or her, nor does she need, or likely want, my approval. I don’t think it is anyone else on MMM or in Trenton’s business to go approve her relationship, or mine, by giving me some piece of paper.
Think about it for a second, “…by the power vested in me by the State Of New Jersey”… “Power”? Like I really want to give the State of New Jersey, or any government, power over my own personal relationship, as if the folks in Trenton don’t have enough power as it is? The State can take my income, my private property, and you want me to let them take my relationship too? No Way. Should I give the state the power over what food I like to eat? What pillow I like to sleep on? No Way. And keep your stupid marriage certificate NJ, I’m busy being happily in love with my girlfriend, without your grand and wonderful blessing, or license fee. Just leave me alone and get your mittens off of me.
And I’ll admit, I understand that it’s easy to claim this view is a bit naive because, for example, I’m not granted certain rights with my girlfriend like a husband in the hospital. But I don’t complain to Jen Beck or Chris Christie, or the pastor at church, I call the HR drone over at the hospital and bitch to him or her, then I call the security guy, the CEO, blast the shareholders, post on Facebook, Tell My Mother, etc… someday other folks will ask these Free Enterprises (you guys do support free enterprise right?) to change their corporate policies; hopefully you clowns didn’t give the government the Power, through HIPPA or something, to prevent an internal policy change that would give me equal access to the person I love…. ohh right, you did already.
So again, for the record, I’ll disagree with Jen Beck on 2A issues, and on supporting gay marriage, but not for the religious(?) or moral(?) reasons cited by many here, but because I don’t need or want legislators doing anything to give themselves and the government as a whole even more power, over even more people.
* — I speak only for myself, James P. Hogan, not any candidate, club or committee…. and you can yell at me and argue your point if you want, but I’ll state honestly that I’m not really willing to think about any viewpoints that involve giving the government more authority. 🙂
James,
I couldn’t let this opportunity go by without a rebuttal.
I would not have been considered for my present position without the knowledge, skills and abilities of my former occupation. In fact, it was a prerequisite. I did not make the rules up, I am only working within the established framework of rules and regulations established by the United States Office of Personnel Management.
Having said that, I did not utilize fraud or deceit in order to obtain an illegal pension AND a county salary, as is the case in the Sheriff’s Department. That was clearly a case of fraud and abuse. That fraud was brought to the attention of Jennifer Beck through the
hotline established on one of her web sites. I submitted compelling evidence that fraud has been committed. She NEVER got back to me. Why?? Is it because it implicates Kim Guadagno?? Is it because it implicates a fellow Republican???
I submitted this information to her “fraud” web site on numerous occasions. What do I get?? No response; A visit by a state police investigator. and a nasty article written by her in the Transcript, that I have been abusive and threatening to her staff during the last six years. That was damn lie!! Like I stated in my rebuttal, who would allow this to take place for such a long period of time without law enforcement intervention. The second lie she stated in that same article is that the investigation of the corruption is over in the Sheriff’s Department–IT IS NOT OVER!!! It is currently being reviewed for criminality in the Attorney General’s Office and the Division of Pension and Benefits. The feds are aware due to inherent conflicts of interest with those investigating this matter as well.
If she would lie about that, what else is she lying about???
I know double-dipping bothers you–but it is not illegal. When it becomes illegal, I will AGAIN play by the rules, and suffer whatever consequences that may await me.
James, I have not utilized intentional fraud or deceit to obtain employment. The only fraud in my opinion is Beck—and believe me, this is not over.
She touts transparency for government– even proposing bills for government agencies to be more transparent in dealing with taxpayers–yet she refuses to show me proof that she donated the Solomon Dwek campaign contributions he gave her during her assembly and senate campaigns.
I have stated this before, and I will state again: This will be one in interesting election. Get the popcorn ready, and enjoy the show.
One more thing: Did I apply to the SD for employment?? Yes I did. With my experience, I felt I would have been an asset to the community, since I did not want a take home car, and also wanted a 20% reduction in the salary that was established at the time. I also would not have taken any pension or health benefits.
You did not know that, did you? Just another way of being an asset to my community and very transparent.
Something I find lacking in the woman you are supporting.
Tommy,
Every time I make this staement i get the same response. Citations please. I supply citations but it doesn’t covince anyone.
For the record a lot of this can be found in gay health publications.
Honestly I don’t have the energy to onceAGAIN dig up the citations.
A simple Google search will allow anyone who cares to confirm my statements.
Ahh what the hell here are two links of the Thousands out there.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
http://www.nami.org/TextTemplate.cfm?Section=Fact_Sheets1&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=54036
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